[DISCUSS] TM in website graphic images

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[DISCUSS] TM in website graphic images

steve_rowe
I want to finish addressing the Project Branding Requirements at <http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html>.  

One of the outstanding issues is stamping our graphics with "TM".  From <http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html#graphics>:

        Logos are important to recognize as trademarks as well.
        For the project's official logo (if it has one, and
        especially if it uses the ASF feather), ensure that it
        includes a small "TM" symbol in the graphic or
        immediately adjacent to it. For pages that include the
        poject logo on them, ensure you mention "... and the
        Project logo are trademarks..." in the attribution.

There is no room for interpretation here: the requirements say that it must be done.

However, when this was last discussed, in November 2010, several PMC members said they didn't want to do it, AFAICT largely because it would make the logos look ugly:

        http://markmail.org/message/i4mnm3nx6bbq3dgu>

I propose that we take a VOTE, saying that we elect to ignore this aspect of the branding requirements, so that we can close out the effort to comply with the other aspects.

Here's the wording I'm thinking of:

------
Please VOTE to NOT comply with the requirement in the Apache Project Branding Requirements <http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html#graphics> that "TM" be included in or be presented adjacent to all project graphic images on Lucene PMC websites.

[] +1 The Lucene PMC will not put TM in or adjacent to the project graphics on our website
[] -1 The Lucene PMC will comply with the graphics TM requirement in the Apache Project Branding Requirements
------

Thoughts?

I plan on voting +1 if this goes to a VOTE.

Steve
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Re: [DISCUSS] TM in website graphic images

Chris Hostetter-3

: Logos are important to recognize as trademarks as well.
: For the project's official logo (if it has one, and
: especially if it uses the ASF feather), ensure that it
: includes a small "TM" symbol in the graphic or
: immediately adjacent to it. For pages that include the
: poject logo on them, ensure you mention "... and the
: Project logo are trademarks..." in the attribution.

For me, the crux of the question/confusion is about the fact that
according to these guidelines, all official logo's "especially if it uses
the ASF feature" must include a small "TM" symbol....

Except that I can find no evidence anywhere on that this specific
"requirement" has been adopted for the ASF feather itself...

        https://www.apache.org/
        https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
        http://www.apachecon.eu/

I can't find a single ASF page in which the ASF Logo includes an ugly "TM"
-- instead, trademark notice related to the ASF logo seems to be dealt
with on all apache.org pages (that i can find) in the same way that many
companies seem to deal with this sort of thing w/o making their logo ugly:
put a notice at the bottom...

"Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache Software
Foundation."

I see nothing wrong with putting "Apache Lucene and the Lucene logo are
trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation." at the bottom of our pages.  
Likewise for Solr.  I don't udnerstand why the requirements say that
project Logo's need "TM" in them when foundation logo doesn't.

: I propose that we take a VOTE, saying that we elect to ignore this
: aspect of the branding requirements, so that we can close out the effort
: to comply with the other aspects.
:
: Here's the wording I'm thinking of:

I'm fine with holding a VOTE, but perhaps a better first step is to simply
ask the branding team: "WTF is up with this requirement? We think it
looks ugly, It doesn't seem to be legally require since many trademarked
logos aren't displayed this way on their comany websites, and if it is
required then why isn't the ASF Logo displayed this way?"

-Hoss