Renaming SolrCloud

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Renaming SolrCloud

Ishan Chattopadhyaya
Hi,
I think some of us feel that
SolrCloud or "cloud mode" etc. are misnomers. This name sometimes trips up many adopters.

I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
"cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
consensus.

I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud" in the name.
Thoughts, please?
Regards,
Ishan
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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Shawn Heisey-2
On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
> I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
> there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
> "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
> consensus.
>
> I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
> in the name.

I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.

Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.

The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
try and do.

I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.

Thanks,
Shawn

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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

david.w.smiley@gmail.com
I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.

And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.

Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.

~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer


On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
> I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
> there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
> "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
> consensus.
>
> I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
> in the name.

I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.

Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.

The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
try and do.

I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.

Thanks,
Shawn

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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Jan Høydahl / Cominvent
+1 to adapting all our docs to make cluster mode the preferred/default and “hide” the standalone use cases more. We could also redefine -c in start script to mean “cluster”?

Instead of getting rid of the SolrCloud term, why not strive for making Solr more “cloud native”, and thus live up to the expectation new users may have? That may mean that we as a project take ownership of our Docker images, help develop a k8s operator, etc.

Jan Høydahl

2. okt. 2019 kl. 06:24 skrev David Smiley <[hidden email]>:


I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.

And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.

Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.

~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer


On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
> I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
> there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
> "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
> consensus.
>
> I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
> in the name.

I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.

Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.

The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
try and do.

I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.

Thanks,
Shawn

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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Noble Paul നോബിള്‍  नोब्ळ्
In reply to this post by david.w.smiley@gmail.com
Why even "cluster mode" or "cloud mode"?

Solr, by default , should use the cluster mode. So in all our
documentation, we should use just "Solr" and it should refer to a
"cluster mode of Solr"

Wherever we don't have a "cluster mode" should be explicitly qualified
as "standalone Solr"

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:24 PM David Smiley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.
>
> And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.
>
> Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
>> > I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
>> > there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
>> > "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
>> > consensus.
>> >
>> > I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
>> > in the name.
>>
>> I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
>> overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.
>>
>> Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
>> 8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
>> terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
>> code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.
>>
>> The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
>> quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
>> try and do.
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
>> going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shawn
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>


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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Houston Putman
Jan,

I agree strongly with your last point. And in case you haven't seen it before, there is a solr k8s operator, with a growing community, under development at https://github.com/bloomberg/solr-operator.

I agree that taking control of the solr docker images could be a good idea. That way, it could have larger involvement from the community and grow more organically with changes in Solr itself.

- Houston

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:25 PM Noble Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why even "cluster mode" or "cloud mode"?

Solr, by default , should use the cluster mode. So in all our
documentation, we should use just "Solr" and it should refer to a
"cluster mode of Solr"

Wherever we don't have a "cluster mode" should be explicitly qualified
as "standalone Solr"

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:24 PM David Smiley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.
>
> And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.
>
> Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
>> > I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
>> > there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
>> > "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
>> > consensus.
>> >
>> > I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
>> > in the name.
>>
>> I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
>> overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.
>>
>> Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
>> 8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
>> terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
>> code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.
>>
>> The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
>> quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
>> try and do.
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
>> going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shawn
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>


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-----------------------------------------------------
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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Doug Turnbull
I agree very much on normalizing to one mode of running Solr

So long as the 'cluster mode' hello world is easier than having to think a lot about zookeeper and other hard things. One reason people use standalone mode because it's as simple as "Point '/bin/solr' at config directory and go". If there's just cluster mode, it all should be dead simple to help newbies play around with Solr without thinking that hard

-Douc

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:36 PM Houston Putman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jan,

I agree strongly with your last point. And in case you haven't seen it before, there is a solr k8s operator, with a growing community, under development at https://github.com/bloomberg/solr-operator.

I agree that taking control of the solr docker images could be a good idea. That way, it could have larger involvement from the community and grow more organically with changes in Solr itself.

- Houston

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:25 PM Noble Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why even "cluster mode" or "cloud mode"?

Solr, by default , should use the cluster mode. So in all our
documentation, we should use just "Solr" and it should refer to a
"cluster mode of Solr"

Wherever we don't have a "cluster mode" should be explicitly qualified
as "standalone Solr"

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:24 PM David Smiley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.
>
> And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.
>
> Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
>> > I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
>> > there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
>> > "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
>> > consensus.
>> >
>> > I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
>> > in the name.
>>
>> I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
>> overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.
>>
>> Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
>> 8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
>> terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
>> code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.
>>
>> The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
>> quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
>> try and do.
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
>> going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shawn
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>


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-----------------------------------------------------
Noble Paul

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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Malcolm Upayavira Holmes
Solr can run Zookeeper embedded. Just make the 'standalone' version run a Zookeeper, then you can deprecate the standalone mode entirely.

Also, given that installing ZooKeeper is a pain, and that Solr has the embedded ability to run ZooKeeper, it always seemed a good idea to me to have the option to run ZK from within the Solr codebase, e.g:

  solr zookeeper start --various=options

Would start a Zookeeper instance, and make one less thing to go download.

Upayavira

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019, at 5:40 PM, Doug Turnbull wrote:
I agree very much on normalizing to one mode of running Solr

So long as the 'cluster mode' hello world is easier than having to think a lot about zookeeper and other hard things. One reason people use standalone mode because it's as simple as "Point '/bin/solr' at config directory and go". If there's just cluster mode, it all should be dead simple to help newbies play around with Solr without thinking that hard

-Douc

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:36 PM Houston Putman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jan,

I agree strongly with your last point. And in case you haven't seen it before, there is a solr k8s operator, with a growing community, under development at https://github.com/bloomberg/solr-operator.

I agree that taking control of the solr docker images could be a good idea. That way, it could have larger involvement from the community and grow more organically with changes in Solr itself.

- Houston

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:25 PM Noble Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why even "cluster mode" or "cloud mode"?

Solr, by default , should use the cluster mode. So in all our
documentation, we should use just "Solr" and it should refer to a
"cluster mode of Solr"

Wherever we don't have a "cluster mode" should be explicitly qualified
as "standalone Solr"

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:24 PM David Smiley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.
>
> And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.
>
> Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
>> > I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
>> > there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
>> > "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
>> > consensus.
>> >
>> > I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
>> > in the name.
>>
>> I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
>> overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.
>>
>> Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
>> 8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
>> terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
>> code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.
>>
>> The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
>> quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
>> try and do.
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
>> going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shawn
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>


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-----------------------------------------------------
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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

david.w.smiley@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull
Unfortunately, I think SolrCloud / cluster mode is less easy to use than standalone mode for the developer experience locally.  The main pain point is the ease of modifying configuration.  In standalone, I go edit some configs using a text editor, then hit "reload" on the core.  Presto.  With the cluster mode I need to also upload the config -- a CLI command but still awkward.  Something to remember to type, something to forget.  An alternative path is using Solr config APIs to do the manipulations, but frankly that's only useful for automation.  It's painful to do this ad-hoc with looking up the documentation and trial & error, etc.  I wish "managed" schema was not the default; I've never used in on my Solr projects.

Some ideas:
* Add a config file editor to Solr.  Not sure if our APIs are sufficient here; don't want to add another security risk.
* Add a config path watcher / uploader script that automatically uploads on changes to the file system at a path.
* Add a new mode of configSets storage such that each node stores it locally yet also syncs a single zNode ID to trigger the watches.  This might use new "file store" / "package store" implementations for the new plugins management.

These might even avoid the additional collection "reload" step.

~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer


On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree very much on normalizing to one mode of running Solr

So long as the 'cluster mode' hello world is easier than having to think a lot about zookeeper and other hard things. One reason people use standalone mode because it's as simple as "Point '/bin/solr' at config directory and go". If there's just cluster mode, it all should be dead simple to help newbies play around with Solr without thinking that hard

-Douc

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:36 PM Houston Putman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jan,

I agree strongly with your last point. And in case you haven't seen it before, there is a solr k8s operator, with a growing community, under development at https://github.com/bloomberg/solr-operator.

I agree that taking control of the solr docker images could be a good idea. That way, it could have larger involvement from the community and grow more organically with changes in Solr itself.

- Houston

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:25 PM Noble Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why even "cluster mode" or "cloud mode"?

Solr, by default , should use the cluster mode. So in all our
documentation, we should use just "Solr" and it should refer to a
"cluster mode of Solr"

Wherever we don't have a "cluster mode" should be explicitly qualified
as "standalone Solr"

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:24 PM David Smiley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hear you and sympathize but "SolrCloud" has been used long enough that I doubt the trouble is worth it.  I guess that makes me "+0".  That said, I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize "standalone mode" as-such and perhaps say more explicitly that SolrCloud == "cluster mode" even if we don't eliminate SolrCloud terminology.
>
> And as SolrCloud ... errr... "cluster mode" I mean, gains in usage relative to "standalone mode", perhaps we can reference SolrCloud less often and sorta assume that and instead make exceptions in documentation to standalone mode specifics where we call that out as such.  It's a loose idea; I'm don't have an example in mind.
>
> Similar to the above notion, maybe "CloudSolrClient" could be more invisible without renaming it.  Imagine SolrClient.createFromZooKeeper() etc. static methods that instantiate CloudSolrClient by default.  Just a thought.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/30/2019 6:59 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya wrote:
>> > I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
>> > there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
>> > "cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
>> > consensus.
>> >
>> > I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud"
>> > in the name.
>>
>> I see your point, but I think that "cloud" is so entrenched in the
>> overall consciousness of the software that changing it will not be easy.
>>
>> Maybe it might be something we could accomplish slowly, over the rest of
>> 8.0's lifetime and the entire 9.0 lifetime.  Begin changing the
>> terminology we use in communication, start shifting documentation and
>> code, with a hard cutover in a later major version, perhaps 10.0 or 11.0.
>>
>> The level of effort involved would be considerable, whether it happens
>> quickly or slowly.  It might be the kind of thing we just don't want to
>> try and do.
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea, and I might even be able to help, but it's
>> going to need a lot of buy-in from those of us who work on Solr.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shawn
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>


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-----------------------------------------------------
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Author: Relevant Search
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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Shawn Heisey-2
On 10/17/2019 10:58 AM, David Smiley wrote:
> Some ideas:
> * Add a config file editor to Solr.  Not sure if our APIs are sufficient
> here; don't want to add another security risk.

It would be VERY useful to have this.  It should require explicit admin
action to enable -- not enabled by default, or it will get tagged as a
security issue.  And I think it should work in both cloud and standalone.

In a similar way, it would be really nice if there was a way to
edit/add/delete anything in the ZK database right in the admin UI.  It
will need a caution note saying that doing so can be dangerous, and
similar to config editing, should not be enabled by default.

> * Add a config path watcher / uploader script that automatically uploads
> on changes to the file system at a path.
> * Add a new mode of configSets storage such that each node stores it
> locally yet also syncs a single zNode ID to trigger the watches.  This
> might use new "file store" / "package store" implementations for the new
> plugins management.

If it can be made bulletproof, I'm not opposed.  Maybe some kind of
mirroring of configsets in ZK and on every node.  By paying attention to
modification times, automatic synchronization could be accomplished --
so when a file is changed in one place, whether that is in a node
configset directory or in ZK, it gets updated in all other locations.
My worry with this idea is that it will be difficult to avoid the
implementation being brittle ... but if it's very carefully done, that
shouldn't be a problem in practice.

I wonder whether deletions could be handled.  Probably need the ability
to designate one location as the canonical resource if we want that to work.

> These might even avoid the additional collection "reload" step.

I don't know that I like the idea of automated collection reloads, at
least by default.  Somebody might want to edit a configset for an
upcoming change, but wait two hours before reloading linked collections
and activating the change.  Having an option to enable automatic reloads
if the admin chooses sounds good.

Thanks,
Shawn

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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Noble Paul നോബിള്‍  नोब्ळ्
A standalone mode should be nothing but a SolrCloud setup with an
embedded ZK and a single node.

If users want to edit config files they can still do it . People edit
config files all the time in SolrCloud today. Directly editing files
on a filesystem cannot be a requirement that keeps as from moving on
to a unified model

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 4:36 AM Shawn Heisey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 10/17/2019 10:58 AM, David Smiley wrote:
> > Some ideas:
> > * Add a config file editor to Solr.  Not sure if our APIs are sufficient
> > here; don't want to add another security risk.
>
> It would be VERY useful to have this.  It should require explicit admin
> action to enable -- not enabled by default, or it will get tagged as a
> security issue.  And I think it should work in both cloud and standalone.
>
> In a similar way, it would be really nice if there was a way to
> edit/add/delete anything in the ZK database right in the admin UI.  It
> will need a caution note saying that doing so can be dangerous, and
> similar to config editing, should not be enabled by default.
>
> > * Add a config path watcher / uploader script that automatically uploads
> > on changes to the file system at a path.
> > * Add a new mode of configSets storage such that each node stores it
> > locally yet also syncs a single zNode ID to trigger the watches.  This
> > might use new "file store" / "package store" implementations for the new
> > plugins management.
>
> If it can be made bulletproof, I'm not opposed.  Maybe some kind of
> mirroring of configsets in ZK and on every node.  By paying attention to
> modification times, automatic synchronization could be accomplished --
> so when a file is changed in one place, whether that is in a node
> configset directory or in ZK, it gets updated in all other locations.
> My worry with this idea is that it will be difficult to avoid the
> implementation being brittle ... but if it's very carefully done, that
> shouldn't be a problem in practice.
>
> I wonder whether deletions could be handled.  Probably need the ability
> to designate one location as the canonical resource if we want that to work.
>
> > These might even avoid the additional collection "reload" step.
>
> I don't know that I like the idea of automated collection reloads, at
> least by default.  Somebody might want to edit a configset for an
> upcoming change, but wait two hours before reloading linked collections
> and activating the change.  Having an option to enable automatic reloads
> if the admin chooses sounds good.
>
> Thanks,
> Shawn
>
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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Bram Van Dam
On 20/10/2019 01:32, Noble Paul wrote:
> A standalone mode should be nothing but a SolrCloud setup with an
> embedded ZK and a single node.

From an operations point of view, I disagree. ZK is another process to
monitor, another process which can fail, another process which exposes
various security concerns. Additionally, ZK's Administrator Guide still
insists that its transaction log should be on a separate disk ("A
dedicated partition is not enough"), which is quite frankly a pain in
the arse for smaller setups. I'm not sure whether it's all that
important in standalone mode, but it's certainly something to consider.

 - Bram


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Re: Renaming SolrCloud

Martin Grigorov
In reply to this post by Ishan Chattopadhyaya
Hi,

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 3:59 PM Ishan Chattopadhyaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I think some of us feel that
SolrCloud or "cloud mode" etc. are misnomers. This name sometimes trips up many adopters.

I propose that we rename SolrCloud mode to "cluster mode" such that
there shall be "Apache Solr", running in either "standalone mode" or
"cluster mode". We can effect this renaming 9.0 onwards, if we have
consensus.

+1 on this proposal !
 


I am open to any other proposal as well, so long as we drop the "cloud" in the name.
Thoughts, please?
Regards,
Ishan