[VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

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[VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Ryan Ernst
It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
it is eventually released).

We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Adrien Grand
+1

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Ryan Ernst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
> both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
> faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> it is eventually released).
>
> We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.
>
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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Martijn v Groningen-2
+1

On 12 September 2014 17:48, Adrien Grand <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Ryan Ernst <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
> both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
> faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> it is eventually released).
>
> We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.
>
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Met vriendelijke groet,

Martijn van Groningen
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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Otis Gospodnetić
In reply to this post by Ryan Ernst
+8
 

> On Sep 12, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Ryan Ernst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
> both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
> faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> it is eventually released).
>
> We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.
>
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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Shawn Heisey-4
In reply to this post by Ryan Ernst
On 9/12/2014 9:41 AM, Ryan Ernst wrote:
> It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
> both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
> faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> it is eventually released).
>
> We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.

I don't want to stand in the way, so this is not a negative vote.  My
only concern is causing a large amount of divergence between trunk and
the stable branch, which makes it difficult to backport.

I'm completely unfamiliar with what Java 8 brings to the table.  I'll
also confess that I'm still fairly clueless about what Java 7 gives us
that's not in Java 6 ... although I think I finally do understand what
"try-with-resources" actually means.

If switching to Java 8 is the first step on the road towards a 5.0
release, then I'm all in favor ... although we really need to figure out
how we'll achieve a running Solr, now that we don't make a .war.

Thanks,
Shawn


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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Chris Hostetter-3
In reply to this post by Ryan Ernst

: faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
: developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
: it is eventually released).

Examples please?



-Hoss
http://www.lucidworks.com/

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Uwe Schindler
In reply to this post by Ryan Ernst
+1

Uwe

Am 12. September 2014 17:41:24 MESZ, schrieb Ryan Ernst <[hidden email]>:
It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
faster. And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
it is eventually released).

We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.



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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Benson Margulies
In reply to this post by Chris Hostetter-3
If we release the current contents of trunk first, I'm OK with this, not that i have a veto. There are many large organizations of the sort that use Lucene & Solr that will not be moving to 8 for years yet. If the current trunk content is marooned until they move to 8, I will be sad.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Chris Hostetter <[hidden email]> wrote:

: faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
: developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
: it is eventually released).

Examples please?



-Hoss
http://www.lucidworks.com/

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Robert Muir
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Benson Margulies <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If we release the current contents of trunk first, I'm OK with this, not
> that i have a veto. There are many large organizations of the sort that use
> Lucene & Solr that will not be moving to 8 for years yet. If the current
> trunk content is marooned until they move to 8, I will be sad.
>

I don't buy "for years yet".

"After April 2015, Oracle will no longer post updates of Java SE 7 to
its public download sites"

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Robert Muir
In reply to this post by Chris Hostetter-3
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Chris Hostetter
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> : faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> : developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> : it is eventually released).
>
> Examples please?
>
>

The ability to specify default methods on interfaces.

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Tommaso Teofili



2014-09-12 21:11 GMT+02:00 Robert Muir <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Chris Hostetter
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> : faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> : developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> : it is eventually released).
>
> Examples please?
>
>

The ability to specify default methods on interfaces.

which I, by the way, find awful ... however +1

Tommaso
 

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Chris Hostetter-3
In reply to this post by Robert Muir
: "After April 2015, Oracle will no longer post updates of Java SE 7 to
: its public download sites"

I'm not sure that's really relevant to the discussion?

With Java5 & Java6, there was no other large scale JVM distributions then
Oracle, so their EOL was extermely pertinant to the question of how long
we shoud support it.

With Java7, OpenJDK is out there -- as the refrence implemention of Java7
in fact -- and it's seems probable that there will continue to be
community support for it long after Oracle stops officialy distributing
their commercial version.

So I don't think we should not let Oracle's timeframe fro mtheir
commercial EOL affect our decision


Playing devils advocate....

> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html

That same page that makes it clear there will not longer be *public* (ie:
free) "updates of Java SE 7" from oracle past that date, it also makes it
clear that Oracle will continue to provide bug fix releases of Java7 for
paying customers until 2019, and critical bug & security fixes until 2022.


-Hoss
http://www.lucidworks.com/

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Robert Muir
In reply to this post by Tommaso Teofili
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Tommaso Teofili
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> 2014-09-12 21:11 GMT+02:00 Robert Muir <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Chris Hostetter
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > : faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
>> > : developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
>> > : it is eventually released).
>> >
>> > Examples please?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> The ability to specify default methods on interfaces.
>
>
> which I, by the way, find awful ... however +1
>

I thought it was awful myself too, but sometimes its appropriate. For
example, I am currently working on a patch to allow you to gain
insight into what is going on with lucene datastructures, how much
memory are they using, etc.

With java8, i could add a default method to interface Accountable
"getChildResources" that returns the empty list, along with some
static sugar methods to e.g. ease implementations and so on. This
would be a relatively small patch, wouldn't introduce useless noise
anywhere, would be easy for people to use, and it wouldnt break
backwards compatibility.

With java7, there are less choices. I can introduce a new method to
the interface (breaking it, and requiring lots of
Collections.emptyList impls everywhere), and a separate Accountables
with just static methods, thats one option. Alternatively, i can
introduce a new (sub)interface, but that makes the API more complex
and much more difficult to use, e.g. instanceof casts and so on, and
you still need a separate class for the other stuff.

I only use this example because it is something I am currently working
on and it frustrates me.

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Robert Muir
In reply to this post by Chris Hostetter-3
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Chris Hostetter
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Playing devils advocate....
>
>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>
> That same page that makes it clear there will not longer be *public* (ie:
> free) "updates of Java SE 7" from oracle past that date, it also makes it
> clear that Oracle will continue to provide bug fix releases of Java7 for
> paying customers until 2019, and critical bug & security fixes until 2022.
>

That is bogus for an open source project. I won't have such updates,
how can i support such a java version, users that run into trouble?
And this does happen often.
I don't think i should have to pay money and become a paying customer
to Oracle to support lucene.

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Michael McCandless-2
In reply to this post by Ryan Ernst
+1

Mike McCandless

http://blog.mikemccandless.com


On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Ryan Ernst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
> both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
> faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
> developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
> it is eventually released).
>
> We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.
>
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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Simon Willnauer-4
+1

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:26 PM, Michael McCandless
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1
>
> Mike McCandless
>
> http://blog.mikemccandless.com
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Ryan Ernst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It has been 6 months since Java 8 was released.  It has proven to be
>> both stable (no issues like with the initial release of java 7) and
>> faster.  And there are a ton of features that would make our lives as
>> developers easier (and that can improve the quality of Lucene 5 when
>> it is eventually released).
>>
>> We should stay ahead of the curve, and move trunk to Java 8.
>>
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>
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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Chris Hostetter-3
In reply to this post by Robert Muir

: That is bogus for an open source project. I won't have such updates,
: how can i support such a java version, users that run into trouble?
: And this does happen often.
: I don't think i should have to pay money and become a paying customer
: to Oracle to support lucene.

I didn't say you should.  I in fact said almost the exact opposite: that
we shouldn't let commercial versions of the JDK have any bearing on our
decision....



1) Benson made a reasonable statement that "There are many large
organizations of the sort that use Lucene & Solr that will not be moving
to 8 for years yet"

2) you said: "I don't buy "for years yet"." ... impling that such
organizations will *have* to upgrade before then because there won't be
*free* releases of java.

3) I tried to point out 2 things:

a) we shouldn't let the EOL cycle of *one* commercial vendor have any
bearing on our policy of support -- particularly since the refrence
implementation is an open source source project.

b) that your argument against benson's claims seemed missleading: just
because Oracle is EOLing doesn't mean people won't be using OpenJDK; even
if they are using Oracle's JDK, if they are large comercial organizations
they might pay oracle to keep using it for a long time.





-Hoss
http://www.lucidworks.com/

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Robert Muir
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Chris Hostetter
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> b) that your argument against benson's claims seemed missleading: just
> because Oracle is EOLing doesn't mean people won't be using OpenJDK; even
> if they are using Oracle's JDK, if they are large comercial organizations
> they might pay oracle to keep using it for a long time.
>

Its not misleading at all, its being practical. If people want to use
old jvm versions, good for them. But if they open a corruption bug
with one of these "commercial" versions, then my only choice is to
close as "wont fix". So they might as well just use an old lucene
version, too.

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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Dawid Weiss
I'm ok with moving to Java 8, although realistically I don't think
it's that much of a gain (yes, there are some syntactic sugars and new
APIs, but I remain pretty conservative about using them).

D.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Robert Muir <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Chris Hostetter
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> b) that your argument against benson's claims seemed missleading: just
>> because Oracle is EOLing doesn't mean people won't be using OpenJDK; even
>> if they are using Oracle's JDK, if they are large comercial organizations
>> they might pay oracle to keep using it for a long time.
>>
>
> Its not misleading at all, its being practical. If people want to use
> old jvm versions, good for them. But if they open a corruption bug
> with one of these "commercial" versions, then my only choice is to
> close as "wont fix". So they might as well just use an old lucene
> version, too.
>
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Re: [VOTE] Move trunk to Java 8

Benson Margulies
In reply to this post by Robert Muir


On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Robert Muir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Chris Hostetter
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> b) that your argument against benson's claims seemed missleading: just
> because Oracle is EOLing doesn't mean people won't be using OpenJDK; even
> if they are using Oracle's JDK, if they are large comercial organizations
> they might pay oracle to keep using it for a long time.
>

Its not misleading at all, its being practical. If people want to use
old jvm versions, good for them. But if they open a corruption bug
with one of these "commercial" versions, then my only choice is to
close as "wont fix". So they might as well just use an old lucene
version, too.

Here's what I know. Over the last few years, the large entities my employer sells to have been very slow to move to new Java versions. Why? I dunno, maybe all of them have Mordac working there. Do they pay for security fixes from Oracle? Or do they just stick their heads in the sand? I can't tell you. One that is on my mind right now may just barely make it to 1.7 this year.

We (meaning this project, not my employer) generally require that 'significant' changes go into major releases. So, that ties together the JVM version and these changes. Thus my desire to see a way to get the pending trunk work to people who are not moving to 1.8 any time soon. An alternative would be to have a different policy for what can go into a 4.x. I thought I saw a message go by about a 5x branch the other day, so perhaps things are already exactly what I am asking for, and I apologize for the noise. Given how long it is likely to be until 6.0, I am not here to argue that 6.0 should not require 1.8. I like a nice lambda expression as well as the next guy.


 

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